(en) CGT, Rojo Y Negro - Reproduce an interview on the
sovereignty process in Catalonia (ca) [machine translation]
The made few days ago with a student - (prefiere remain anonymous) of the School of
Information Sciences at the Complutense University of Madrid. I will clarify that I simply
answer the questions asked me, not without suppressing some dating -here- them in neat
too, that the interviewer had taken of my books in defense of the sovereignty consultation
in Catalonia (Cataract, Madrid, 2014) and on the Spanish nationalism (Cataract, Madrid,
2014). ---- Carlos Taibo By RojoyNegro_Digital on Thu, 10/01/2015 - 14:06. ---- Share on
twitter Share on facebook More Sharing Services ---- Ideas > Interviews. ---- How do you
see the sovereignty debate Catalonia? ---- Whether it is to talk, first of all, of
sovereignty discussion, because usually in the media confinement state level is that
relating to the threat or challenge sovereignists. Although the debate in question claims
of conceptual tools, and human behaviors that are not next to me, I have to point out that
I believe in the principle of self-determination, and I believe in it because I would find
it very difficult to defend the opposite: whatever it the institutions are not sacred, it
is reason to establish mechanisms that give residents the ability to decide on the
inclusion of the political community in which they live.
And that first comes to mind at this time Catalonia under two specific reasons. The first
is the fact that a clear majority of Catalans, independence or not, want to consult them
on the insertion in question. The second is provided by the intuition that a good part-not
know whether or not the majority of Catalan society is for independence. Things as they
may be, must stress that a referendum on self-determination may give rise, yes, to a
process of independence, in the same way that you can ratify the status quo today or
generate other horizons. In this scenario I understand that my duty is to defend the right
of the Catalans, or who may be, to decide their future, from the respect due to all the
resulting options.
And, do not you think that in relation to the future of Catalonia should vote in a
referendum imaginable, all Spanish citizens?
I know of no referendum on self-determination in which he has been summoned to the polls
the entire population of the affected State. Voters in Quebec residents of Quebec,
Scotland and the Scots. But I must stress that the establishment , visibly hostile to the
logic of the Spanish political self-determination, even protects a referendum in which
could vote, in fact, all Spaniards. I suspect that, without more, has a wild fear that
becomes evident that there is a majority of Catalans decided to leave Spain.
Are you in favor of an independent Catalonia?
'I've said-I defend the right of the Catalans to decide their future. I look respectable
your choice, in that case, provided they do not imply, of course, aggressive policies and
violations.
It grant a plebiscitary character regional elections, is not a way of tweaking the
exercise of self-determination?
It is, in effect, a twisted form, and unfortunate, to allow that exercise. But I
understand that the greatest responsibility in this regard it's up to who at the time
prohibited, with all the resources at its disposal, the holding of a referendum in
conditions. It's funny that those who have deployed the ban is now complaining folds born
of a plebiscite use of a regular election. In this vein, and indeed funny also the
ubiquitous argument that says the first thing is to respect the laws. I say that because
most of those who take refuge in him say, yes, that must be respected, while concealing
that they are unwilling to change to a democratic right to be recognized. Under these
conditions it seems that civil disobedience is a response channel insorteable.
I will also say that, from my point of view, the stupidity of the establishment Spanish
politician has placed it in a delicate situation. If it had taken some time ago, as did
the British government, the holding of a referendum in Catalonia, it seems likely that the
cause Unionist cause-defended by the establishment - had fared well and the independence
option had been in the minority. But the refusal to accept the possibility of the
referendum has placed in the hands of the sovereignist forces the power to establish rules
of the game-so, the relative percentages of seats or votes-that have not been subject to
prior negotiation and, if necessary, may not be reasonable. Not only that: it has caused
many Catalan pro-independence initially gradually changed his mind.
Are credible forecasts announcing disasters in the case of chained his way the
independence of Catalonia?
It depends, of course, the way, negotiated or traumatic, to assume the corresponding
process. In light of what happened in other scenarios I have, however, the impression that
catastrophes that are advertised not be such. In any case, I find it regrettable that
argument, concluding resolved the issue from the beginning, he says that these potential
disasters are sufficient to cancel, with the instruments they are, the sovereignist
process. What would become of me if I afirmase the inference that a new electoral victory
of the Popular Party in Spain would be a catastrophe, something which does not fit me
doubtfully invite me to suggest that the election should be canceled?
Otherwise, I am obliged to stress that in recent months meanings of Spanish speakers
government have made unusual statements which assert miserably become adverbs ever and
ever . Spanish Interior Minister has allowed Catalonia will always say that Spain's civil
guard or never leave the Basque Country. One that believed in a democratic country-and
be-Spain boasts the determination of a thing and the other should be left to the free will
of citizens. But there are, to deny these essentialist nationalist, the Spaniards, who
estimate that there are untouchable realities that there is no democratic scrutiny.
Curiously, the same identifying opinion leaders, often with respectable arguments, endless
aberrations in the history of Catalan sovereignism close their eyes to the constant
processes which has given the Spanish state nationalism, which seems not exists. If Junts
paper if you want sweep the polls the best thing to do is unplug the emission of TV3 and
put in place the Telemadrid: I fear that many Catalans were undecided clear the scene. How
are the things Mr. Albiol, amazing PP candidate for president of the Generalitat, appears
moderate and tolerant of the pack of the right ultramontana revealed in most radio and
television talk shows in Madrid. Those who fall in any case, are always others: never us.
I am tempted to add that the final ascendancy of Spanish nationalism do not escape those
who adhere to the vacuous speech that invoked the benefits of globalization and
cosmopolitanism: how easy, and how misleading it is to adhere to one and the other when
living comfortably installed in the logic of a nation-state that is not subject to any
questioning.
The sovereignist process, is not the product of whim interested Artur Mas and the Catalan
bourgeoisie leads it politically?
I think it is a serious and unfortunate mistake to reduce the process to the condition of
a person or, where appropriate, of a group. There are many Catalans who, excited about the
process in question, nor sympathize with More or have some connection with one or the
other segments of the local bourgeoisie. Is it reasonable to blame the United Left, or
can, working with the Spanish bourgeoisie based, exclusively, on the record that accepts,
as the bourgeoisie, the existence of an independent Spain? But, otherwise, the
certification that part of the Catalan bourgeoisie supported the sovereignist option must
be completed with that on the other side of the trench, the Spanish bourgeoisie, which is
not exactly uplifting, has launched all its machinery to stop a imaginable independence
Catalonia. Just take a look at the statements of the heads of the big banks and big
business, or the tone of the positions of the means of confinement. Humorous hysteria
daily El País shown in these hours given for a book.
Is not it problematic that Mas is visible figure in Junts main role Yes?
It is, in fact, and although it must be understood that much of the Catalan sovereignism,
beset by the need to seek majorities, has tended to generate a kind of ambitious grand
coalition. The operation is undoubtedly delicate, because you can roll back many people
who, logically, disdain to vote for a list that Mas plays a major role. But I have to
return to the fray with a previous argument: the miseries surrounding the September 27
elections are largely a result of the closure of the Spanish rulers regarding the
organization of a referendum in conditions. This aside, those who believe that the
sovereignty debate raises an important discussion about the nature of economic and social
tools in the Catalonia of the future we are saying, under an argument that is as
understandable as debatable, that the priority of today is the achievement of independence
aerate the future. And in that sense, and if we accept these arguments, it should be
placed 27 elections in a much broader context in which the relief of the presence or
absence of more would be clearly lower.
What do you think will happen if the sovereignists have options of a parliamentary
majority in Catalonia that allows them to move forward with a unilateral declaration of
independence?
Frankly I do not know. Provisionally I think the bulk of the establishment Spanish
politician has thrown in the towel. That's at least what I suggest statements such as "if
Catalonia declares independence will remain outside the EU", which represent, at least in
a first reading, an acceptance de facto reality of independence. I guess in the back
Barrunta what is the conclusion that drastic repressive measures-from the suspension of
the status of autonomy to put tanks on the streets, through the prosecution of responsible
politicians would hardly presentable in the European Union and would raise more than
likely wave of sympathy for the independent Catalonia. But nothing I can say for sure.
The other possibility is that way opens negotiations involving, for example, the
organization of the referendum was rejected in 2014 or which causes the assumption by the
Spanish authorities for certain concessions in favor of Catalonia. In my reading of the
latter this time horizon, implying that Catalonia would remain part of the Spanish State,
it would be difficult to justify in the eyes of many of those who support the sovereignist
process.
I do not know what is in this scenario fits a proposal, as presented by the PSOE, it
suggested setting up a federal state in Spain. If, on the one hand, just change the
present reality-which makes this proposal is hardly attractive to the sovereignist
positions, in Catalonia and elsewhere, on the other understand that it is only reasonable
if it sits in a previous recognition right of self determination of the integral parts of
the federal state, something the Socialists, however, does not appear to contemplate Party.
What do you think of the position we in relation to what concerns us here?
When the process has sovereignty and a long journey, and when the Spanish authorities have
made clear their position on the right to self-determination, we seem to demand a reverse
operation which sits in the intuition that a new majority government -¿ which - in Madrid
When did assume in the future - the organization of a referendum in Catalonia and, by
extension, and hand adventurous policy, would win for the Spanish cause many Catalans
today flirt with independence. If we add the required dose of lerrouxismo, with the
invocation of any solidarity between the working classes of one side and the other, in the
context of a speech that in fact parked the national question, we will have an overview
that explains why in relation to Catalonia, we are in this time in a boost for the
establishment Spanish politician. In the back I sense that asserts a paradox: whatever we
can only seem interested in changing the rules of the regime Spanish-not interested in any
way the system articulated around capitalism, patriarchal society, the ecological crisis
or collapse - in the end there are plenty of people who believe that their proposals
regarding the need to end the regime of transition are quite harmless compared to the
project arising from the Catalan sovereignism.
But do you think it wrong that we defend Catalonia remain part of Spain?
In any way. I think it is a respectable choice. Missing more. I have already pointed out
that a referendum should cover the possibility of acceding to secession involving horizons
and other warranting maintenance, with the changes we want, the situation today. In that
referendum they would have the possibility to express themselves, and can not now think,
who believe that the independence of Catalonia would this catastrophe by which you asked
me before.
You're a libertarian. How do the Catalan libertarian process?
I speak for myself exclusively, to the extent not represent anybody. Really hard for me to
represent myself. First of all I must stress that in the libertarian world has raised the
national question always opposing views. While most positions understand that nations and
nationalisms are devices created to bolster the interests of the relevant national
bourgeoisie, some -is the case of Bakunin, one example of rescue have always considered
that can not be underestimated in any way national liberation struggles.
A few months ago I came across an article published in an anarcho-syndicalist magazine,
which highlighted that the Spanish anarchists before 1936 were not separatists. The
argument made me uncomfortable, I believe that anarchists are, by definition,
independence, as far as advocating a radical decentralization of power until his
disappearance. It is true that their independence is not linked to the institution State,
but with the practice of self-management and autonomy. Moreover, I hope that these
anarchists to which the article referred to asumiesen question, beyond a consistent critic
of the miseries of the upper classes in Catalonia, a frank answer than I thought, and
supposed state nationalism Spanish, because otherwise their attitude seem rather
collaboration, actively or passively, with the powers estatuidos. In any case, my position
is the same as that ran much of the Catalan libertarian movement during the failed
referendum of November 2014: reject the emergence of a Catalan state but without
precautions defend the independence of Catalonia. And each one of the parts of the latter.
http://rojoynegro.info/articulo/ideas/entrevista-carlos-taibo-sobre-el-proceso-soberanista-catal%C3%A1n
