We met Mohamed Amami, Tunisian revolutionary activist, a political refugee in France since
2006. In a break with Trotskyism for several years, it declares independence and supporter
of direct democracy. It runs between France and the country of origin, in order to
strengthen the revolutionary movement, he participated in the construction of a new
network organization based on centralist and anti anti hierarchical designs: Tunisian
libertarian organizations included in this construction process. Mohamed also trying to
get a free radio Sidi Bouzid. We took this opportunity to have the latest information on
Tunisia. ---- ALI: What is the current situation in Tunisia's economic and social level?
---- Mohamed Amami each day he repeated that the Tunisian economy is in a catastrophic
situation, the debt obligation to constantly borrow. But the reality is not that.
The government talks about losses caused by days of sit-ins and blocking actions
phosphate, he speaks of a loss of 8 billion dinars per day only for phosphate. This shows
that the economy is rich and fertile. In addition to phosphate, it speaks of significant
oil reserves hidden but so far brought to light by researchers. There are also cereals,
wine, citrus, dates etc.. So Tunisia is rich but its people are poor because looting is
enormous.
IAL: Can you tell us about the progress and stagnation of the post-revolution?
MA: We are not in the post revolution, it really started the revolution. The revolutionary
process has just begun. We always talk about post revolution, but there were a few days of
insurrection that forced the regime to restore throwing Ben Ali and his family. But we try
to restore the system with other forces that have long been in opposition but also with
some of the pro Ben Ali who were not at the forefront. So today we did nothing of the
revolution, the protests continue in the regions and the advanced sectors of the
revolution to achieve a truly revolutionary situation and overthrow the regime.
ALI: What are the leading regions, rather in the cities, the countryside?
MA: There are actually two Tunisia. Coastal Tunisia recognized as advanced, modern and
Tunisia from within, very deprived, poor, they are forgotten regions.
Gafza is the first region to have started the rebellion, it is the richest region of
Tunisia with its mining area but it is the most deprived area with such a rate of youth
unemployment to over 40% . All loan Gafza region, there is the region of Sidi Bouzid.
There is also the region of Kasserine, Kef etc. to. There are plenty of areas that are out
of power, which are designed as a resource center, which are looted and abandoned. This is
why the rebellion began in these areas and has spread to other regions supposedly most
preferred as Souss where poverty also exists because there is that large who benefit.
There are also areas in large cities who show solidarity with these regions such as the
belt of misery in Tunis Popular cited.
ALI: What analysis have you on the current situation, the revolutionary process?
MA: the revolutionary process generally imposed to power a freedom of expression and
freedom to organize. But this freedom also benefits the parties that were hitherto
democratic opposition parties legalistic. These parties are trying to reduce the demands
and aspirations of the people that freedom of expression and to organize. And thus
contribute to the maintenance of power, their freedom to them (the parties). It is this
design that surrounds opposition parties on the left and right. The revolutionary process
is trying to break the monopoly of politicization. There are, for example, the time when
we talk for almost a month and two villages of Sidi Bouzid blocking train phosphate,
preventing routing phosphate Gafza instead of phosphate treatment. There are also Gafza
and mining basin mobilizations every day. Ago Siliana and Kasserine events. Mobilizations
and the process of radicalization oppose the politicization and advance despite many
obstacles: essentially bureaucracies like the TT UG trying to stop, contain and control
mobilizations to let in the standards. conciliation and negotiation, and there is also the
attitude of the parties which do not fit in the mobilizations of areas, they are in an
attitude of outside support and give advice such as "should not be violence, there should
not be too hard, it must be democratic, etc. conciliator. "
ALI: It's the same thing for the radical left to the parties who claim revolutionary?
MA: exactly what is the left who claims that now has a revolutionary design of the
bourgeois democratic revolution. For them the revolution is not a social revolution, a
democratic revolution. For them, it must be a consensual plan of all national forces to
tackle the crisis, poverty, development of the country, to have a worthy place in the
international institution of Tunisia and to change international conventions and to back
and imperialism. For the rest, for they try to advance social few claims such as "we must
seek solutions to employment for regions that are not so well developed. ". This is their
social program.
IAL: Exactly what is your analysis of dams and barriers to the revolution including the
electoral process?
MA: The first dam is a subjective dam, the revolution has no program, no policy.
Objectively revolutionary forces, those who are involved in the process have no designs on
strategic tasks to be performed to arrive at a situation of revolution and dismantle the
structures of the state. Democratic parties, left, etc. called revolutionary. have another
program fit into the process of democratic transition. It is a negotiated process with the
army, the police of Ben Ali and the right-wing opposition as Ennahda, CPR ie with the
Islamists and liberals. There is a consensus from the second Kasbah sit-in that was: we
will install a process of democratization of the state, we defend the state (because for
them if we dismantle the state is emptiness, chaos ) by renewing it restores by
democratizing to expand its social and political base.
That is the greatest obstacle. The UGTT is the main political force (because the Tunisian
Central is not really a simple union claiming social, it has always been a politicized
organization and almost a workers' party). This plant has played an important role in
curbing the revolutionary process involving all political s right, left, liberal Islamists
accepting the democratic transition process.
IAL: Besides can you give us feedback on the elections that took place?
MA: Yes. In that context we opted for the Constituent Assembly. Imperialist forces,
especially the United States and France had allies in these parties. These forces are
described as "sponsor" of the revolution and tried to inject the idea of ??transitional
democratic process which is carried out through centralized elections, prepared by a
committee to prepare the special election law. This law there has been excluded from all
revolutionaries, independent all those at the head of mobilization in the regions, in the
advanced sectors of the people. It was an election on lists, everyone can not get lists.
Everything was controlled, it was a democracy "drip" where every time a small slice of
democracy for the position of the plan is injected. Anyway in Tunisia who are still at the
head of the revolutionary processes are independent people, independent since the parties
were at the margin of the revolution, next. They asked Ben Ali margin to contribute, to
participate and could not imagine that we can turn Ben Ali in 2011. To conclude, the
elections of October 23, 2011 made a large dam against the revolution, and tried to
confuse the revolution to restore the system, with the allies in the opposition who have
played a big role. They were made under the absolute and immediate control of the army to
oversee and ensure the transition.
IAL: Can you tell us about the level of self-organization of the people during the
revolution and after?
MA: the revolutionaries, the people who attacked the symbols of power, police stations,
the delegations of the governorate in the regions were forced to defend themselves, to
self-organize in defense committee. First there was therefore the emergence of these
self-organized structures. These structures then later, when they were able to release a
lot of areas, the police no longer happening in these areas and began managing cities and
villages by practicing solidarity, helping people to help farmers in their work. They
committees to clean the streets, because there was no more municipal councils. This self
towns and villages was in the first period when the parties were virtually absent.
Regional Locals advanced sectors were well established and have contributed much to the
revolutionary process. The direction of the central UGTT weakened at this point,
especially as its general secretary was until the last minute with Ben Ali and tried to
save him. All this has pushed the union to be independent with respect to their device and
contributed to the self-organization. But then if it lasts, we must theorize that ie it
must come to learn, we must come to bind regions together, try to centralize the idea and
spread throughout the country. This attempt was made in April, May 2011 but all parties of
the extreme left have invested to break. There was a conference to try to establish a
federation of these self-organized structures, but the far-left parties have broken it
bluntly, they tried to dominate this process because for them it is inconceivable that
there are structures independent of their parties. So unfortunately these self-organized
structures have vanished gradually. But here come the Islamists with their money from
Qatar, Saudi Arabia trying to bribe some structures, to mount other artificially and put
them in position to defend their party to monopolize power. And now we see what are called
leagues defense of the revolution who are defending Islamist militias who are trying to
break the protests in the streets.
IAL: Is there been any reaction in opposition to this and instead go to ideas of
self-management and direct democracy or we are a little in the palm?
MA: At the moment the idea circulates in our organizational project right. We are trying
to restore this idea and spread within particular occupations and protests taking place in
the region of Sidi Bouzid, Gafza, Souss etc.. We try to corner the leftists who meanwhile
related to their device but are in mobilizations reborn again these structures
(ato-organized) and the spread and unite.
IAL: To summarize we can say that the parties have been out of the process, when they
entered it was to stop or control it. Where there are attempts to reconstruct these
grassroots organization that has been broken ambitions. That's it?
MA: Yes.
IAL: Earlier you talked about union in cities, are there unions that are de-federated the
UGTT, are there structures that emerged out of the UGTT?
MA: At the moment a single federation was formed out of the UGTT, which is a federation of
university. It is autonomous, trying to find his place in the struggles but it is always
the UGTT concluded agreements with the state. So they are at the margin because the UGTT
is very strong 750,000 members and the UGTT is present even in all small towns, smaller
villages. This is why fight against this device is crucial to attracting unionists who are
radical but bound by their own direction.
ALI: And this federation is a legacy of the revolution?
MA: Yes.
IAL: Can you tell us about the role of women and the feminist movement today.
M: As a general rule, the woman takes an important role in mobilization, but there is
always a gap between the role of women and the result, as they always end up being put in
a position regressive. They were among the most radical fringe within the revolution, the
three components being more radical youth, women, and es-capita in the poorest regions.
But as every time they argue for a better situation, it ends up in a worse situation.
Capitalism seizing the Muslim religion to thwart the aspirations emancipation claim all
social fringes (youth, women, marginal ....). Currently, there aun current begins to show
a little, that we call the modernist movement. These are reformists who were willing the
regime of Ben Ali, because it was a bulwark against the Islamization of Tunisian society,
and are forced to relate to the revolutionary movement to defend and promote the rights of
women.
ALI: There are not yet specifically radical feminist organization in Tunisia?
MA: There is an NGO called "The Democratic Women" fighting for the emancipation of women,
but it is a liberal organization. For them, the issue of women's independent economic and
social issue. There are however two Maoist parties who have built structures specifically
for women who are more radical on economic and social issues well understood, but the
specific feminist issue, they are less advanced than liberal.
IAL: On the role of movements of the unemployed on the revolution?
MA: In terms of the Union of Unemployed Graduates, the beginnings began around 2004, with
students who tried to organize the youth study output which are mostly found in the
unemployment through mobilization rather small and symbolic in several peripheral regions
of the country until the revolutionary process becomes serious. So they tried to be at the
"head" of the movement, they were among the first repressed and massacred by the state.
They tried to organize coordination in the different regions, and the organization was
mainly built during the revolution and is more important that the parties in the
radicalization of the movement part.
IAL: Regarding the consequences of the arrival of the Islamists to power?
MA: You must already know that the Islamists were Ennhada, until the eve of the fall of
Ben Ali, they tried to negotiate with him a contribution to government and had no problem
to give him another term for the presidency. United states have so far a special office to
manage the flow of Islamists they are brothers with the cohesion policy of the latter in
the region and trying to take place in the construction of the Grand and Middle East. They
had talks since at least 2006, with the Americans, who want to turn the dictators in place
to build another power, through Qatar to find a way to participate in power, even before
the protests begin up. From there, Islamization was a fact wanted by not only Europe and
the USA, the coverage of golf and also a part of the Ben Ali regime, even give direction
to the Islamists, it was for them to keep their privileges, which is currently the former
government of Ben Ali is still in the decision-making bodies. So we are told that this is
a party that is not obscurantist but "just" conservative, and this is not true. They began
an Islamization power down, such as the police mission is to regulate the consumption of
alcohol in the streets, mixed, and gradually Islamize society. They are also engaged in a
process of drafting the constitution, they are trying to impose, since they are the
majority in the Constituent Assembly, their Islamist vision of society, and for two years,
writing this constitution advance and it is not a real harassment, they do not hesitate to
use militias to control the population, locking out any possibility of movement.
Currently, women are veiled even fear, that is not necessarily Islamic.
IAL: These are the famous leagues defense of the revolution?
MA: This is one of the components, there are three in truth, there are also the militias
of the ruling party and the Islamist militias, who at times are in conflict but rather
generally meet.
IAL: Is that what you think there will be a Islamization of society or, on the contrary,
people will realize that they are not an alternative for a better life?
MA: There are two things, but it is political. They work on the political and moral. Even
people who realize that they have nothing new to report Ben Ali and they are liberals like
its predecessor, they let themselves be fooled by the work of preachers who put the fact
that they are not Islamized by daily work with people. Because even if you think their
work is not good, we can believe that others with more radical Islamists could provide
solutions.
ALI: And how do you see the result of the movement?
MA: In general, I am not very optimistic. With the imperialist pressure and petro dollar
that is put in place, there is no solidarity rather than internationally, and has never
seen a revolution could succeed without a global awareness, international. What we need is
an international, not just national strength. So I see that internationalism and
solidarity among capitalists are very important but much less in the revolutionary forces.
While we will continue to fight, we hope that the situation will allow us to lead to other
wishes for the northern Mediterranean, because we believe that if the revolution is the
Mediterranean north and true solidarity into place we will be all the stronger, and
capitalists will be forced to give up some land for home.
ALI: What about the solidarity that could play in North Africa?
MA: Unfortunately the Maghreb there than in Tunisia, where he spends a revolution. In
Algeria and Morocco, the movements were suppressed and content. So there is no real
solidarity between the revolutionaries and the people, especially the coordination is in
the plans. There is the case of Egypt by cons, where solidarity was beautiful, but since
the coming to power of Islamists, solidarity has been broken and it is once again the
powers that be that we are on the ascendancy, So our ties have recovered. We also fear the
worst coming from Libya, between the arms and the Islamists, we are isolated, there is
more distrust of solidarity. Whenever the Islamists come to power, it is always a war of
all against all, this is one of their principles.
IAL: Can you tell us about the landscape of revolutionary libertarian movement in particular?
MA: In the left margin of the institutions and the Popular Front (Nationalist), there were
autonomous who refused the alliance. There are even activists who have tried to be in the
coordination of this front for influence within the activists of these structures. But
there were small groups that have formed around what we call the Revolutionary
Coordination composed of anarchists, communists and anarchists also identify people who
are just around previous self-management by taking it as a model. It is the organization
Disobedience is an anarchist organization as well as a small group of unionists
libertarians, and all those small groups try to work together (through releases for
example), but they are numerically smaller and n ' not really have visibility or
stability, they are under construction. And we are trying to build a federalist
organization and coordinated but autonomous means trying to develop a real strategy for
Tunisia.
IAL: Thou hast spoken of a radio project in Sidi Bouzid, if you would like to talk about ...
M: At the moment, we especially need equipment and expertise. We want to actually get a
free radio to transmit our ideas in Sidi Bouzid. There is a real need, because we are all
trying to have a stand-alone tool for expression that does not depend neither parties nor
power, nor conventional organizations.
IAL: you want to say a final word?
MA: Even if the difficulties are enormous and it is currently very difficult to make an
organized revolutionary work, we want to preserve our autonomy. Currently, Tunisia is a
souk, parties, organizations, they all donors behind them, and us, we will have to face
all this, but we have the courage and we have no other choice.
ALI: Thank you Mohamed.
Interview May 15, 2013 by Gilles and Valerian (group Montpellier)
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