"Venezuela will not return to its previous stage, even if the opposition wins the
presidential election ever." The statement is Bruno Lima Rocha, in an interview with IHU
On-Line by e-mail, to comment on the expectations of Venezuelan politics after the death
of Hugo Chavez. In his assessment, the legacy is evidenced Chavista "in better
distribution of the country's GDP, and by 1998 this was concentrated. 80% of the wealth
generated in the country, mostly through oil PDVSA, (...) does not even reach 20% of the
population. " Although envision an immediate continuation of the Chavista political
project, Rocha points out that "this implies legacy and heritage policy Chavista leaders
do not have the degree of internal cohesion needed to keep it. When the opposition is
again defeated at the polls, the problem will again be endogenous. "
IHU On-Line - On the one hand, the Venezuelan political system has received much criticism
because of the actions of Hugo Chavez and, secondly, had popular support and some segments
of the left. What was his political project?
Bruno Lima Rocha - Respond to this question, as everything that relates to Venezuela after
1998, is also establish an analytical position. Chavez is a character who emerges as a
national hero after a failed coup attempt in February 1992. This reflected a moment of
exhaustion oligarchic pact and went to meet the desperate population after the massacres
under the Caracazo of 1989. What can we interpret is that Chavez and his closest allies
understood the need to break with the Pact of Punto Fijo and bring the policy excluded the
masses of the country. To do so, they had to transfer some power to them and channel it
through the charismatic leader. Already legitimacy came with the election mechanism,
accused by the right of being plebiscitary. The almost 14 years ahead of Miraflores Palace
also served to replenish the ruling elites of the country, with all costs that entails,
including the presence of careerists and turncoats coming from the oligarchic period.
IHU On-Line - where Chavez spoke in developing socialism of the XXI century. What was this
proposal and how it was developed over your government?
Bruno Lima Rocha? I understand that the project Ch?vez was the modernization of society,
developing possible within the public services, causing minimal state would meet the
aspirations and rights of the majority. The XXI century socialism came to be drafted in
situations such as tables Political Techniques and experiments communal autonomy (the
so-called committees of land) in urban, suburban and rural areas for example. But when the
Fifth Republic Movement gives rise to the creation of the PSUV, this "party" with almost
any program unit can not be the engine of any social exchange. If not for the presence of
the oligarchy, we would see a socializing process much more interesting, emerging
contradictions and conflicts within the Bolivarian movement and that would go against the
endogenous right call. Unfortunately, in my estimation, the XXI century socialism becomes
a discursive resource to resume the spread of socialist ideas on which Ch?vez himself not
manifested a high degree of definition.
IHU On-Line - What were the main successes and failures of the Chavista government?
Bruno Lima Rocha - depends on your point of view, but for the sustainability of the
project, it would be necessary to increase the level of political culture and try to
modify the state from within. I understand that a mistake was excessive centralization of
decision and trigger somewhat irregular, very susceptible. It's what in Spanish is called
occurrences. An idea occurred to him and was able to move mountains to interpret it, read
a book and quoted in the following discourse. A settlement has been fighting for control
of the media capital and oligarchic families, reminding them that they were holding public
concession and not inherited by prescription of the spectrum. Another hit, but this a
great goal, was to create a whole structure of social assistance and promotion, totally
lacking before.
IHU On-Line - What are the social, cultural and economic conditions offered by Venezuela's
Chavez government? What is his legacy?
Bruno Lima Rocha - Venezuela will not return to its previous stage, even if the opposition
wins the presidential election ever. The legacy of Ch?vez is in better distribution of the
country's GDP, and by 1998 this was concentrated. 80% of the wealth generated in the
country, mostly through oil PDVSA (a state with Chavez, a mixed capital company, but under
oligarchic control before), does not even reach 20% of the population. For others it was
the lottery of life, including a high degree of political repression - considering
disappearances and murders. If this notion that majorities can mobilized to ensure the
achievements and pluck rights is maintained, with some degree of belligerence class, then
the legacy of Ch?vez remains. The problem is that this legacy implies political heritage
and the Chavista leaders do not have the degree of internal cohesion needed to keep it.
When the opposition is again defeated at the polls, the problem will again be endogenous.
IHU On-Line - What readings can be made of social data presented throughout the Ch?vez
government. Today people live better in Venezuela?
Bruno Lima Rocha - I will not be listing data here, because the indices of GDP and the
GINI coefficient - patterns that are questionable, but accepted worldwide - are
irrefutable. Today Venezuelans live better, have their own identity, assistance and basic
services and rights, before the Venezuelan economy, life expectancy considerably.
Previously, the majority of Venezuela had nothing, including rural populations, african,
remaining Quilombo, fishermen, farmers and other sectors who lived in craft production.
The social missions and activities linked to the ministries of the executive branch are
irrefutable. I do not see a setback as possible, with the worsening living conditions
being accepted by the majority.
IHU On-Line - What are the political expectations for Venezuela in the coming years?
Bruno Lima Rocha - I understand that Nicolas Maduro will win the elections markedly
against the new unity of opposition by the governor of Miranda state, Henrique Capriles.
In recent state elections, the PSUV took 20 of the 23 states. After the victory likely,
the future will rest on the relationship between Maduro and other political leaders and
between the PSUV and the popular movements.
IHU On-Line - What parallel can be drawn between Lula and Chavez and other Latin American
leaders?
Bruno Rocha Lima - Chavez has become a more credible version of Lula, and the former
president of Brazil is considered by ideologues of the Latin American right as the leader
of a center-left not classist. The class dimension, in its most common perspective (linked
to the world of work), is hardly present in the discourse of Chavez and totally absent in
the discourse and political practice of Lula. But Chavez's government breaks with the
oligarchy of their country while here it has been strengthened, as well as the sectors of
industry, construction, financial and landlordism. Ch?vez and Lula vying for hegemony in
international relations and Latin American, even under the leadership of Brazil, Venezuela
was the trigger that led to the installation of curb Free Trade Area of ??the Americas -
FTAA and partially relocate to Brazil's foreign policy. The more aggressive foreign policy
and willing to reinvest in productive chains broken in neighboring countries was also very
positive.
IHU On-Line - Barack Obama said he is willing to a rapprochement with Venezuela. After the
death of President Hugo Ch?vez, as there will be some change U.S. relations with Latin
America?
Bruno Lima Rocha - yes That can happen and it could shake the Latin American relations. If
Venezuela is the pillar of a proposal for Latin American unity, if the State Department
can modify the position of Venezuela, or, for example, intervene somehow in bilateral
trade between the two countries, perhaps the new leadership Maduro will slow down the
political relations. What occurs is a business partnership dissociated political
relations. The first government ahead of Obama's State Department achieved some victories
on the continent, such as the blows whites in Honduras and Paraguay. It would be a victory
for the Empire trigger the relaxation of Venezuela's position as a pillar of a proposal
for political and economic unity - within the frameworks of capitalism, the example of
what happened in the period of the National Developmental State - on the continent.
IHU On-Line - What future for glimpses chavismo? The political and ideological line could
remain implemented without Ch?vez?
Bruno Lima Rocha - is precisely this multiplicity of interpretations and lines lies the
danger. Chavez opponents before generates more cohesion than ahead of its allies and
followers. Internally, insurance is the maintenance of welfare services and income
distribution through various benefit programs. Externally, the maintenance of trade
relations varied approaches and policies with leaders and countries that are far from the
U.S. orbit. But from these broader definitions, now any predictions would be more
speculative than analytical.
IHU On-Line - Want to add something?
Bruno Lima Rocha - One of the most important features in the period Ch?vez was the
incorporation of a new symbology in the country. The Venezuelan movements inspired by the
readings of Bol?var, Sucre, Miranda, Boves, Zamora and other popular leaders of the
independence period and the first years of the republic. It is very important to have
several leftists who know merge the use of new technologies, which operate in the war of
4th generation (information, meaning, identity, versions) and, at the same, time to try to
reflect a continuity with the training of Venezuelan society.
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